BB

Billy Bragg Interview – Australia, 29th December 2004

At the end of 2004 Billy was in Australia to play two gigs during the Falls Festival at Lorne, Victoria and Marion Bay, Tasmania. I took the opportunity to catch up with him on the phone :

Hello, Billy ?

I’m here. Hang on a sec, let me put my guitar down...Hows things ?

Good mate, good, so how are you ?

Good, I’m good. We had a nice break down at Ninety Mile Beach. Finally got the family to Australia, which I have been trying to do for years.

So Jack had his birthday here ?

He had his birthday and my birthday and Jesus’ birthday. Jack’s is two days after Jesus.

So have you spent all your time at Ninety Mile Beach ?

No, we started off in Melbourne, and then we went up to Sydney for a couple of days. I wanted them to see Australia in all its glory, in ya face in only the way Sydney can. Then we came back on the 23^rd and went to Melbourne for the night, which coincided with that Michael Thomas gig – went down to see Mick, and then on Christmas Eve we went up to the Lakes and stayed there and today we came down to Lorne. Now I am looking out over the Bay, it’s really beautiful, and about to go to work tomorrow.

So you are on tomorrow night there ?

Yeah, at about 4:30…5:00. Then we shoot across to Hobart, on Friday.

Is it right that they take you over in a chopper ?

No they have a big sailing boat with no keel. It’s upside down and you kinda cling to that (laughs). No, back to Melbourne Airport, pretty boring, on a standard flight.

MW So what are the plans for next year, 2005 ?

BB First thing first, the election’s coming up, so I’ve got to push really hard on this House of Lords thing, cos that is shit or bust for the election. If we can get it into the manifesto…I should know that by February time.

But you have been getting some grief on that recently haven’t you ?

Yeah, it comes and goes, but it is all still there to play for. It’s a pretty long-term thing, and my main adversaries have tended to be people who want more democracy, rather than less, which is encouraging. If the argument in the end can be between indirect election, which I favour, and direct election, which Robin Cook favours, then that is great because that means we have blown appointment out of the water. My position is a compromise position for those people who are concerned about the powers of a second chamber, to have a democratic second chamber that isn’t too powerful, that is the argument that I am trying to put forward. Because in the past when we have tried to do this, well it’s a bit like Phil Cleary in the Australian Republican Referendum, he came up with a stronger position that many people did not feel comfortable with or split the vote and ended up with nothing. That is what has happened in the past. People have insisted on direct election and got nowhere, so I am trying to put through a plan B approach. I need to be around to do that. If I could do it from a beach in Australia I’d do it, trust me. I need to be on these people and in their faces. With the election coming up they want me to go and do shit for them.

So is that going to knock you out of action?

No not really, but I need to be in England, and the election will keep me in England. I am also supposed to be writing a book about English identity, which is a failsafe to stop me making England Half English 2. I do tend to write what’s on the agenda. I’m sure you’re aware the BNP have won a seat in my hometown of Barking, and last year the UKIP got 80% of the vote, so all of the issues that I was touching on in the song England Half English have not gone away. A lot of the doors that opened for me when I put that album out, with regard to talking about identity politics, I have found that to be inspirational and intriguing, but I cannot keep on making that same damn album.

How’s the book going ? I think you’ve been working on that for a little while now.

It is all there, I have to get it all down on paper. What happened last year was that I had a luxurious year not worrying about it, but this year I’ve got to get it delivered by August, so that will really sort me out – it’s what I wanna do. So that does unfortunately does put making a new album on the back burner a bit.

So that’s not going to leave time for anything else ?

That’s true, but after 20 years, you think to yourself what other ways can I do this. And I think that the House of Lords thing and writing the book thing are very much in keeping with what I have done and what I have said. If I’m encouraging people to engage in politics I feel I have to do that myself rather that just singing about it.

I was thinking of it from another angle. Would you see it as something you’ve always wanted to do, to get your own book published ?

No, the book is more about a challenge. You’d probably agree, I could probably say this to you that I’m pretty good at being Billy Bragg. I’m probably the best Billy Bragg there is.

You’re the best Billy Bragg tribute artist I’ve ever seen.

No, we know who that is – Tyrell. Andy Tyrell gives me grief about that all the time ! But, you know what I mean – after 20 years it’s not difficult for me to make another Billy Bragg album. I could do that tomorrow. What makes me want to really push myself is writing the book. I’ll be honest with you, I don’t know if I can do it and I don’t know what the conclusion of the book is. So, that’s a bit more of an adventure. I think that after 20 years you’ve got to do this otherwise you’ll just go round and round making records. Not that I don’t want to make records – that is my main job. I don’t want you to feel that I’m not focussed on that as well. I suppose I’ve been around the block enough to know that the audience is out there for another Billy Bragg record, and I feel really fortunate about that, but they’re not gagging for it, know what I mean.

I want to ask you about new songs. It’s been a long while since we heard something new.

Yeah, well that’s true. Partly the reason that that is that the last year or so it’s been the Best Of and that’s made me play more of a wander through my back catalogue, and also I was aware last time that I played a lot of songs on the album before the album came out, and everyone was a bit bored of them by the time the album came out.

I think there were only about 3 that hadn’t been heard live.

Exactly, that was because we had that long period with the Woody Guthrie albums coming out back to back and I wouldn’t want to do that again. I’m writing stuff, in fact I just came up with some nice chords waiting for you to call actually, which I’ve just written down. So, if you find one of the songs on the next album was initiated in Lorne you’ll know it’s the one you interrupted by calling me. You put it back 6 months (laughs).

You know I’ve got songs knocking about…that’s why it’s a shame I didn’t go to New Zealand cos I think I would have felt I was far enough away from everybody to try a few out there.

There’s been stories going around that next year Cooking Vinyl Records in the UK are going to reissue all the old albums.

I’ll tell you what that’s about. Over the last year or so my American label, Elektra, was bought by Edgar Bronfman. They had a big clearout and among the people they cleared out was me. So, my records are not presently available in America. That’s the whole back catalogue, in fact I’m not even sure that Mermaid Avenue is available. So, we found a small label that wants to put out the entire back catalogue in America and in order to make that interesting, for me as much as for anybody else, we’re now currently looking at putting out 2CDs for each album – the original album remastered plus a dozen or so tracks from that period, from those sessions. Not just the B-sides and the alt. takes but other stuff as well. In some cases songs that were never released and I never play. Songs that just kind of existed in the studio, although one of them I cannibalised the tune. I don’t know how they fell between the gaps but they did.

Is there a lot of that kind of material ?

I wouldn’t say there’s a lot but there’s certainly enough odd stuff and unreleased stuff to justify a double CD for each album. Everyone’s going to notice there are some obvious omissions like Reaching To The Converted. We’ve taken an oath not to re-release any of the stuff that’s already on there cos we think that would be a bit out of order. So if you wanted the “absolutely complete Billy Bragg” you might buy all the reissues and Reaching To The Converted and you’d more or less have it.

We sent Grant (Showbiz) in there to have a look around – in the archives – and he did a great job but one of the problems was he wasn’t there on the first 3 albums. So I’m saying titles to him and he doesn’t know the songs, so now we’ve sent Wiggy in there.

He’d be the man for the job.

He’s the man for the early stuff. He’s mastering stuff and finding tracks. He was there when I was trying out such and such a song that never went anywhere or he was there when we were doing stuff in Athens with REM. Shit like that.

I was wondering back to a couple of years ago when I had a chat with Jackie Mackay. She said that in the early days of Riff Raff you were turning out a new song almost every day.

Oh yeah. There’s Riff Raff tapes of loads more songs than were on the singles but whether or not anyone would want to hear ‘em is another argument. I think in ’77 we did about 14 tracks and again in ’79 we did a similar number of tracks straight off our live set in a very makeshift demo studio. I’m happy for them to come out at some point if people think that’s worth putting out or putting them out on the net if that works out as a way of doing things.

As a bonus disc maybe ?

Possibly. I’m not exactly sure how we’ll do it. I think we want to put these re-release albums out in batches of two or three.

Like Elvis Costello’s doing ?

Yeah. I think what Costello’s done is really good but the thing about Costello’s stuff is that a lot has already been released. You know he’s into about his 3^rd or 4^th set of reissues. I know that cos I buy ‘em cos I think he’s great. But I’d just like to do it once and there it is, it’s all out there.

I’ve got to ask you about one song, “This Gulf Between Us”

Now, “This Gulf Between Us” – the problem with those songs from that programme (Safe – a BBC TV movie) is that we don’t own the rights to them. So, I’m going to have to look into how that works so we may have to wait a bit down the line for that. It may be that I re-record them. There’s about three songs from that programme, one of which is “MBH” which you know from the live bootleg.

There’s also “Piccadilly Rambler”

Yeah, and there’s a version of Jerusalem that we did as well – me, Cara and Wiggy. But there’s other sort of weird stuff that we might try to find like The Pattersons radio sessions. Again I’m not sure if we own the rights to that…I think the BBC owns the rights to that.

There’s one other I’ve thought of. I can’t think of the title but I’ve heard it on a bootleg. It’s a song you co-wrote with Michelle Shocked.

Is it “Working For A New Deal Now” ?

That’s the one.

If I can find it, but that’s probably on a live tape and we are only working on studio tapes. I might put some live stuff in there, that’s a good suggestion.

Now the re-releases are a separate deal from the new deal for new albums. I’m now getting a new deal in America for new Billy Bragg albums. I think Anti are going to be putting me out. They’re interested in some new stuff. I’m probably going to be sending over some demos in the new year to have a listen to.

Now, I want to ask you about what happened with “I Vow To Thee My Country”.

Oh yeah. That’s such a joke that ! I can’t believe that ended up on the front of The Daily freakin’ Telegraph !

Yes, it was even on the BBC website and they had people sending in their own rewrites of it.

I know. That’s all I fucking need ! I’ll tell you how that came about. I did a gig at the Labour Party Conference, right. A sort of music night. Which was our way of getting people to our meeting about the Secondary Mandate. It was a dreadful scam. Martin Linton, who is the Parliamentary Private Secretary to the Leader of the House Of Commons, Peter Hain, who is a key player in the whole debate about Lords reform – Martin Linton said “It would be nice to have a music night. I’ve always wanted to do that. I’ll bring my leftwing choir down and we’ll do Jerusalem”. And then he said “I’ve always wanted to do ‘I Vow To Thee My Country’ but the lyrics are just too, too patriotic – perhaps you could write us some new ones ?”. So I said “Yeah. If you like. What do you want me to write about ?”. He sketched out some ideas and I knocked him out some lyrics, about half of which he used and the other half he already had from his own go. And they sang it at the thing and that was it. I thought that would be the end of it. And you know months later, literally two or three months later I’m walking through the village taking Jack to school and someone says “I see you’re on the front of the Daily Telegraph this morning, Bill”…and I had a terrible moment of Boris Johnson, “Oh my God, what have I done ?” (laughs). So I went and bought The Telegraph and there’s a complete non-story. The story seemed to be “Billy Bragg – a socialist - Shock ! – not patriotic, more interested in socialism”. Now that’s a diary piece at most and the only reason I can think that it was on the front page of The Telegraph is that that was the time when the Lords Reform thing was hotting up again.

It was, and also “I Vow To The My Country” is the favourite hymn of a lot of public schoolboys.

Tell you what. It gave me a really good sense about writing this book about Englishness because if it’s that easy to wind them up then a polemical book about English identity should really get up their noses. It’s kinda whet my appetite for a bit more of that. Did you see Norman Tebbit’s letter to The Spectator ? Lord Tebbit wrote a letter attacking me for doing it and referring to me as a “constitutional expert and sometime singer-songwriter”. Now if I’m pissing Tebbit off I must be doing something right !

On a completely different subject – your garage, or what used to be your Mum’s attic or wherever you now keep the stuff - am I right in thinking you’re a bit of a Billy Bragg collector ?

I do have a bit of Billy Bragg memorabilia knocking about, Mark. It’s in the basement actually. It used to be in the old lock-up in Acton but it’s now been transferred to my basement.

I’m sitting in a room that’s known around the world as The Bragg Museum.

I know. It really freaks me out, man. One day I’ll be driving from Sydney to Melbourne and I’ll see a signpost to it !

So tell me about your collection.

I do try to hang on to stuff. Although I must admit that there are some things you have, like those Mermaid Avenue towels that I’d never seen before. But I’m sure there’s one or two things I have that you don’t have.

Well, I’m sure you have a “You Woke Up My Neighbourhood” alarm clock.

I have, actually ! Even funnier than that, you know what mate – I’ve got it with me.

Oh no !

The door fell off. You know it had a little door which said “You Woke Up My Neighbourhood”. That fell off a long time ago but the alarm still works. (aside to Juliet – those alarm clocks were a good idea !) …Juliet and I are just laughing about it. You know Juliet used to run Go Discs!..and she’s saying “You used to tell us off for doing things like that !”. What other shit have you got there ?

Actually there’s something I picked up just the other day. Now you remember about three years ago I gave you a list of your complete discography and you had a good look through it and added a few things. Well, the other day I found something not on that list.

What is it ?

It’s a Russian flexidisc pressed on blue plastic and it’s got an interview with you and “Which Side Are You On?” performed live in Russia.

Wow ! I’ve never even heard of that !

The label is all in Russian. It doesn’t mention you – it just says it was issued with the Journal of the Club for Amateur Dramatics.

How weird is that. If you find another one of them you must send one over. Have you got the Kvinde Hader Fan Club flexi ? I’m might have a couple of those. I’ll have to look in my Big Box of Bill’s Things and send you one.

Actually I got some memorabilia for Xmas – ticket number A13 for the recent Barking gig.

We taped the Barking show and hopefully we’ll get it up at some point.

That would be good because, no kidding, I know of three people who tried to bootleg it and none of their bootlegs worked.

(aside to Juliet – You know that thing we had for mucking up bootlegs. It worked !)

Juliet has a special box she has on her lap and “weee-wooo-weee-wooo” (laughs).

Is it right that Robert Handley was videoing that show ?

He was - him and Wiggy, yeah. Wiggy’s doing stuff for Barking Council and he thought it would be nice to make a video of it. I’m sure he’ll send me a copy in the end.

It was a really nice evening and I really enjoyed it. Porky was great – I had a right laugh playing with him and we played a few old tunes that we haven’t played for a very long time.

Well, thanks for talking – don’t forget to set your “You Woke Up My Neighbourhood” alarm clock.

Did the door fall off yours as well ?

No – I never got one. But I do have two Workers Playtime coffee mugs.

My mug is full of those BB enamel Russian badges.

You know you can get 5 quid each for those on eBay ?

Can you ? Flippin’ heck – I’ll have to have a word with the office. Get them on eBay and sell off my memorabilia like Johnny Cash.

Thanks for taking the time to talk and enjoy the rest of your holiday.

See ya, bye !

Mark Warner – 29^th December 2004